Wow, that has to be the most egotistical, self-righteous, pompous bullshit that I have read today. Who died and named you King Klug? This debate has raged on since the beginning and you will never be able to make everyone think and act the way you do. Why is it always the little things that just bug the piss out of someone? Take a chill pill, and deal with it. This is a very low volume list, and if you don't like it, you can kiss my Ruby ass.
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." - Lt. Col. William Kilgore, Apocalypse Now
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Jason Clinton Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:51 PM To: Frank Wiles Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: test
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 14:25 -0600, Frank Wiles wrote:
I certainly understand your frustration, but instead of getting angry about it, just do what I do. If I can't read the E-mail, I move on...
I appreciate your tempered response and a more rational approach to the issue however, I find that I can not just let it slide. I am personally invested in the vitality of the local Linux community. In the past 3 years I have taught Linux classes to the community for free in my free time; in the last year I have employed no less that 5 members of this mailing list; excluding this last year, I manned the boot at ITEC for three years; and finally, I assisted in the deployment and implementation of the new, locally hosted KCLUG server.
My job in Linux, the Ruby book that I'm writing, the local employment pool, the KC Ruby Users Group who's mailing list I administer, the furtherment of OSS ideology ... ALL of these are related and dependent on a healthy community -- especially locally.
So, I would appreciate it if people would try to avoid being inconsiderate of others. Every mailing to this list is on permanent record and, more importantly, has a lasting effect on those who read it. Please consider the consequences, however small, when you hit send.
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:42 -0600, Jeremy Fowler wrote:
Wow, that has to be the most egotistical, self-righteous, pompous bullshit that I have read today. Who died and named you King Klug?
Read my email again. I'm not claiming authority. My only claim is that I am INVESTED in this community. There's a big different. It's different between arrogant oversight and concerned PARTICIPATION. I find your characterization rather offensive. Couldn't you have stated you opinion in a more collegiate way?
This debate has raged on since the beginning and you will never be able to make everyone think and act the way you do.
I will ALWAYS demand that people are courteous. There's no good reason not to be.
Why is it always the little things that just bug the piss out of someone?
This 'little thing' isn't so little to me. I am on 23 mailing lists and receive around 500 emails per day. I do my best to keep up with every community and project in which I am involved. As you might imagine, I have only a matter of seconds to read any email I manage to get to. If it doesn't make sense, then it's immensely annoying.
Take a chill pill, and deal with it. This is a very low volume list, and if you don't like it, you can kiss my Ruby
The onus is on the sender to create an email which is more palatable for 'dealing with' ... not the reader.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 05:06:38PM -0600, Jason Clinton wrote:
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:42 -0600, Jeremy Fowler wrote:
Take a chill pill, and deal with it. This is a very low volume list, and if you don't like it, you can kiss my Ruby
The onus is on the sender to create an email which is more palatable for 'dealing with' ... not the reader.
Or else ... what? Seriously or else what? I'll tell you or else what? Or else you won't read it. Which is my loss, but perhaps I care, or perhaps I don't. Perhaps my investment is less than yours. Or more. So it goes.
Individual results may vary. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Deposits are not guaranteed by the FDIC. Etc.
-- Hal Duston
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 17:23 -0600, Hal Duston wrote:
Or else ... what? Seriously or else what? I'll tell you or else what? Or else you won't read it. Which is my loss, but perhaps I care, or perhaps I don't. Perhaps my investment is less than yours. Or more. So it goes.
I'm sorry but that's just bullshit. Emails from complete morons appearing in the middle of threads dealing with salient issues (like our _mail_server_having_problems_) *must* be read. There's no avoiding it.
Lets presume that this email pisses you off so much that you decide to
/dev/null everything coming from me. I don't think I need to
illustrate what kind of effect that would have on your ability to ascertain the full context of thread in which I participate ...
To demand a standard of quality from those who choose to participate in the public arena is as old as the word 'etiquette' itself.
--- Jason Clinton wrote:
To demand a standard of quality from those who choose to participate in the public arena is as old as the word 'etiquette' itself.
Ah, yes ... that elusive butterfly called "etiquette". Unfortunately, that definition may vary from culture to culture and even person to person. In America, it generally is even more elusive than in other countries, because we have many subcultures seperated my location and by family history. You see, I find it very rude to have to wade through an email to find the bottom-posted comments. I find it much more showing of
etiquette to reply on top or whereever it makes the most logical sense.
However, I also find it rude to hijack a thread requesting a solution for a problem to start a flamewar. And also for maintaining said flamewar. Hence the term flamebait.
So what do we hear from the corner on fixing the MX record? Would an offer to host a backup MX record and forwarding host help? I could volunteer my server. Without the hope of fee or reward. I currently do not have a nameserver running on the box, but that is easy enough to fix.
As guilty as the rest of being rude from time to time, Brian JD
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 19:23 -0800, Jack wrote:
location and by family history. You see, I find it very rude to have to wade through an email to find the bottom-posted comments. I find it much more showing of
etiquette to reply on top or whereever it makes the most logical sense.
For the third fucking time, the top vs. bottom posting was dropped. 1 year ago. Move on.
However, I also find it rude to hijack a thread requesting a solution for a problem to start a flamewar. And also for maintaining said flamewar. Hence the term flamebait.
The offending post was in this thread. And I replied to the issue as well. But very well; if you want to belabor the ALREADY resolved point read below.
So what do we hear from the corner on fixing the MX record? Would an offer to host a backup MX record and forwarding host help? I could volunteer my server. Without the hope of fee or reward. I currently do not have a nameserver running on the box, but that is easy enough to fix.
I discussed this at length with Hal on IRC tonight. In 2004, Mike Neulip, offered to transfer the domain. We are not going to take him up on that. However, we are going to transfer the DNS servers to our own, though. I am initiating that request. The result of which will take several days if not weeks. For the second time, end of thread. Period.
As guilty as the rest of being rude from time to time,
You are frequently rude, yes. Not everyone is, though.
Ok this is really getting ridiculous people. I was hoping that KCLUG would eventually pick back up and improve the signal to stupid ratio, but it obviously hasn't.
Jason, this post is what finally did it for me. Some tips for your future, it's probably not wise to cuss at the community you have such a vested interest in and for something as silly as mailing list posting formats. There are some really important and useful things to be upset and passionate about in the real world, maybe you should take up one of those as your crusade instead?
Your "concerned participation" is driving people away. I'm leaving and I would wager I won't be the only one.
--------------------------------- Frank Wiles [email protected] http://www.wiles.org ---------------------------------
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:54:33 -0600 Jason Clinton [email protected] wrote:
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 19:23 -0800, Jack wrote:
location and by family history. You see, I find it very rude to have to wade through an email to find the bottom-posted comments. I find it much more showing of
etiquette to reply on top or whereever it makes the most logical sense.
For the third fucking time, the top vs. bottom posting was dropped. 1 year ago. Move on.
However, I also find it rude to hijack a thread requesting a solution for a problem to start a flamewar. And also for maintaining said flamewar. Hence the term flamebait.
The offending post was in this thread. And I replied to the issue as well. But very well; if you want to belabor the ALREADY resolved point read below.
So what do we hear from the corner on fixing the MX record? Would an offer to host a backup MX record and forwarding host help? I could volunteer my server. Without the hope of fee or reward. I currently do not have a nameserver running on the box, but that is easy enough to fix.
I discussed this at length with Hal on IRC tonight. In 2004, Mike Neulip, offered to transfer the domain. We are not going to take him up on that. However, we are going to transfer the DNS servers to our own, though. I am initiating that request. The result of which will take several days if not weeks. For the second time, end of thread. Period.
As guilty as the rest of being rude from time to time,
You are frequently rude, yes. Not everyone is, though.
-- Jason Clinton [email protected]
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:25 -0600, Frank Wiles wrote:
Ok this is really getting ridiculous people. I was hoping that KCLUG would eventually pick back up and improve the signal to stupid ratio, but it obviously hasn't.
Instead of attacking the discussion how 'bout making some salient arguements? Or I guess we could just all throw up our hands and wait another 3 or so months until we have this flame war all over again. Let's fix it.
Jason, this post is what finally did it for me. Some tips for your future, it's probably not wise to cuss at the community you have such a vested interest in and for something as silly as mailing list posting formats.
Read that again, it's at a person, not the community as a whole. It accurately and succinctly conveys my frustration.
There are some really important and useful things to be upset and passionate about in the real world, maybe you should take up one of those as your crusade instead?
I have a ton of crusades on my plate. Any one of these is no reason to disregard others. Especially if less that 24 hours of heated email exchange could make a difference...
Your "concerned participation" is driving people away. I'm leaving and I would wager I won't be the only one.
I imagined that it might have that effect. It has before. But then again, anyone leaving this list is making the *same* argument that I am: signal to noise ratio is getting to low. Lets fix it. Don't walk away.
On 2/17/06, Frank Wiles [email protected] wrote:
Ok this is really getting ridiculous people. I was hoping that KCLUG would eventually pick back up and improve the signal to stupid ratio, but it obviously hasn't.
Yah it hasn't. Can't we all just get along. Gosh...Idiot... ( Not calling anyone an idiot just quoting a movie =:0) Napoleon Dynamite for the people that don't know what I am talking about. )
Jason, this post is what finally did it for me. Some tips for your future, it's probably not wise to cuss at the community you have such a vested interest in and for something as silly as mailing list posting formats. There are some really important and useful things to be upset and passionate about in the real world, maybe you should take up one of those as your crusade instead?
Yah cussing in ML/IRC reminds me of this quote from Bash.org #140580: <delzi> Arguing in the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarted.
I am not making fun of special people by using this quote, my point is that arguing/cussing about stuff just makes you feel like you are in control/authority. I have done something like this before, and have learned that this isn't the best way to accomplish things
So how hard is it to fix the current situation being connection problems with KCLUG server, is there logs of "these" problems happening?
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:38 -0600, djgoku wrote:
So how hard is it to fix the current situation being connection problems with KCLUG server, is there logs of "these" problems happening?
Arg! Have you read this thread!?
On 2/17/06, Jason Clinton [email protected] wrote:
Arg! Have you read this thread!?
I discussed this at length with Hal on IRC tonight. In 2004, Mike Neulip, offered to transfer the domain. We are not going to take him up on that. However, we are going to transfer the DNS servers to our own, though. I am initiating that request. The result of which will take several days if not weeks. For the second time, end of thread. Period.
Has to do with this I presume. I don't know enough about DNS stuff. So DNS is the problem for the internet connectivity problem that Hal speaks of here or?:
What appears to be happening is this. For some reason there is some sort of intermittent connectivity issue with the main kclug.org server. There is a fallback MX record that points to the previous kclug.org server that is in Chicago which is no longer set up to receive email for kclug.org.
Do we have logs of the connection problem does Netstandard also have logs of these problems? I see there are two problems connection problems to KCLUG server and DNS stuff right?
As for me, I will probably stay on the mailing list for the long haul, in lurk mode as usual, but there's no way I plan to break my multi-year streak of not going to any meetings in person, if there is a chance Jason Clinton will be there.
On 2/17/06, Frank Wiles [email protected] wrote:
Ok this is really getting ridiculous people. I was hoping that KCLUG would eventually pick back up and improve the signal to stupid ratio, but it obviously hasn't.
Jason, this post is what finally did it for me. Some tips for your future, it's probably not wise to cuss at the community you have such a vested interest in and for something as silly as mailing list posting formats. There are some really important and useful things to be upset and passionate about in the real world, maybe you should take up one of those as your crusade instead?
Your "concerned participation" is driving people away. I'm leaving and I would wager I won't be the only one.
Frank Wiles [email protected] http://www.wiles.org
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:54:33 -0600 Jason Clinton [email protected] wrote:
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 19:23 -0800, Jack wrote:
location and by family history. You see, I find it very rude to have to wade through an email to find the bottom-posted comments. I find it much more showing of
etiquette to reply on top or whereever it makes the most logical sense.
For the third fucking time, the top vs. bottom posting was dropped. 1 year ago. Move on.
However, I also find it rude to hijack a thread requesting a solution for a problem to start a flamewar. And also for maintaining said flamewar. Hence the term flamebait.
The offending post was in this thread. And I replied to the issue as well. But very well; if you want to belabor the ALREADY resolved point read below.
So what do we hear from the corner on fixing the MX record? Would an offer to host a backup MX record and forwarding host help? I could volunteer my server. Without the hope of fee or reward. I currently do not have a nameserver running on the box, but that is easy enough to fix.
I discussed this at length with Hal on IRC tonight. In 2004, Mike Neulip, offered to transfer the domain. We are not going to take him up on that. However, we are going to transfer the DNS servers to our own, though. I am initiating that request. The result of which will take several days if not weeks. For the second time, end of thread. Period.
As guilty as the rest of being rude from time to time,
You are frequently rude, yes. Not everyone is, though.
-- Jason Clinton [email protected]
Kclug mailing list [email protected] http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-- Kendric Beachey
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:53 -0600, Kendric Beachey wrote:
As for me, I will probably stay on the mailing list for the long haul, in lurk mode as usual, but there's no way I plan to break my multi-year streak of not going to any meetings in person, if there is a chance Jason Clinton will be there.
If the behavior your just exhibited is any indication of your character I would be glad to not see you there....
[Snipped *80* lines of irrelevant information from your post in a FLAME WAR about people being too lazy to trim their posts! What the hell?]
On 2/17/06, Jason Clinton [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:53 -0600, Kendric Beachey wrote:
As for me, I will probably stay on the mailing list for the long haul, in lurk mode as usual, but there's no way I plan to break my multi-year streak of not going to any meetings in person, if there is a chance Jason Clinton will be there.
If the behavior your just exhibited is any indication of your character I would be glad to not see you there....
Well, enjoy yourself. :-)
But you may want to consider whether the effect you intended to have on the community about which you care so deeply was to drive its members away.
[Snipped *80* lines of irrelevant information from your post in a FLAME WAR about people being too lazy to trim their posts! What the hell?]
Sorry, easy mistake when using gmail. -- Kendric Beachey
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 10:04 -0600, Kendric Beachey wrote:
On 2/17/06, Jason Clinton [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:53 -0600, Kendric Beachey wrote:
As for me, I will probably stay on the mailing list for the long haul, in lurk mode as usual, but there's no way I plan to break my multi-year streak of not going to any meetings in person, if there is a chance Jason Clinton will be there.
If the behavior your just exhibited is any indication of your character I would be glad to not see you there....
Well, enjoy yourself. :-)
But you may want to consider whether the effect you intended to have on the community about which you care so deeply was to drive its members away.
In my experience, conflict within organizations and groups does two things:
* defines the group * weeds out crap
And I've seen my share of conflicts...
This list has gone from 'shit' to the 'pure shit' status over the past couple of years. I can't recall the last time I actually read something worthwhile. I thought dc-stuff had issues with arrogance. If you can't keep track of '500 emails per day', why don't you unsubscribe from a few of the '23 lists' you talk about? Who the hell has enough *time* to go piece out 500 emails, where probably a good 90% of them are worthless.<I'm sure the ratio is quite higher on most lists, counting this one at times> I'm on a fair number of lists myself. If I get overwhelmed from idiots posting stuff, or the S/N is just insane, I'll unsubscribe that quick. Problem solved. <note: intentionally fully quoted and top posted, cause I like it like that.> <goes back to deleting other worthless list emails in my box>
-dave
public key at http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xFA904573
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Jason Clinton wrote:
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:42 -0600, Jeremy Fowler wrote:
Wow, that has to be the most egotistical, self-righteous, pompous bullshit that I have read today. Who died and named you King Klug?
Read my email again. I'm not claiming authority. My only claim is that I am INVESTED in this community. There's a big different. It's different between arrogant oversight and concerned PARTICIPATION. I find your characterization rather offensive. Couldn't you have stated you opinion in a more collegiate way?
This debate has raged on since the beginning and you will never be able to make everyone think and act the way you do.
I will ALWAYS demand that people are courteous. There's no good reason not to be.
Why is it always the little things that just bug the piss out of someone?
This 'little thing' isn't so little to me. I am on 23 mailing lists and receive around 500 emails per day. I do my best to keep up with every community and project in which I am involved. As you might imagine, I have only a matter of seconds to read any email I manage to get to. If it doesn't make sense, then it's immensely annoying.
Take a chill pill, and deal with it. This is a very low volume list, and if you don't like it, you can kiss my Ruby
The onus is on the sender to create an email which is more palatable for 'dealing with' ... not the reader.
-- Jason Clinton [email protected]
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 17:54 -0600, David Ambs wrote:
This list has gone from 'shit' to the 'pure shit' status over the past couple of years. I can't recall the last time I actually read something worthwhile. I thought dc-stuff had issues with arrogance. If you can't keep track of '500 emails per day', why don't you unsubscribe from a few of the '23 lists' you talk about? Who the hell has enough *time* to go piece out 500 emails, where probably a good 90% of them are worthless.
How dare you presume to know how I use those resources? Apparently, you think that I use the lists in the same way that you do. Clearly that's wrong.
I am subscribed to these lists because I run in to each of their projects or communities at one point or another throughout the things that I do a daily basis in my development and programming for the Linux platform. I keep copies of these lists locally because mailing list web interfaces are *horrible* and it's even worse to browse archives -- especially archives created by GNU Mailman; threading breaks at the end of each month. There are a few lists I track regardless of what I'm looking for -- KCLUG is, or was, one of them.
Who are you to make a judgment on my private reading methodology?
I'm on a fair number of lists myself. If I get overwhelmed from idiots posting stuff, or the S/N is just insane, I'll unsubscribe that quick. Problem solved.
I thought I made it clear that that is not an option ...
<note: intentionally fully quoted and top posted, cause I like it like that.>
Pay attention. We're not talking about that. That issue was dropped over a year ago.
-
David Ambs -
djgoku -
Frank Wiles -
Hal Duston -
Jack -
Jason Clinton -
Jeremy Fowler -
Kendric Beachey