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Thunderbird email prob
by Chris Hoelscher 18 Feb '05

18 Feb '05

Got a weird one that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on.... I'm using Thunderbird email on SBC's Yahoo of a DSL service. Recently started having a problem that whenever I "wake up" from a hibernation, I can no longer connect to the pop server to get email - until I re-boot the machine! Ending Thunderbird and restarting it does nothing. I'm assuming there must be some stat file or cached password or something, but I have not been able to find it.... I am using Thunderbird so that I can have one email repository from both Linux and Winders, and I should probably mention that this behaviour is generally observed in Winders, can't say I've been able to boot into Linux for a couple weeks, so don't really know if it happens there also or not..... Thoughts? Chris.

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Re: Java and other environments
by csappenfield＠kc.rr.com 18 Feb '05

18 Feb '05

----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins(a)tarcanfel.org> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:21 pm Subject: Re: Java and other environments > On Thursday 17 February 2005 03:42 pm, Jeremy Turner wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2005 at 11:08:53AM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > > > Java is a virtual operating system that can be installed on > top of > > > other operating systems. As an OS, it's somewhat limited and > > > specialized, but that's what the "Virtual Machine" in java is all > > > about. > > > I wouldn't call Java an operating system, in the typical sense > of the > > word. > > I again refer you to the concept of the Java Virtual Machine. A JVM is an abstraction of an OS, just as an OS is an abstraction of your hardware. To say one is the other makes no sense. > > > Give me something like HTML that "runs" natively on multiple > > > platforms, that doesn't require me to download and install a > support> > system. > > > But basically a web browser _is_ a support system. > > A browser is an application. Maybe I'm mistaken about this, but > having looked > at the chore of downloading and installing a JVM/JRE a couple of > times, the > complexity and sheer size of Java distinguish it from something > like Firefox, > which can legitimately claim to be an application. X is an application. (What does size and complexity have to do with it?) Like a JVM, X abstracts part of the OS. Like a JVM, X isn't an OS. > I realise that diversity is part of the evolutionary process, but > as an end > user I don't want to have to download multiple, redundant > scripting systems, > especially if they are only available as, or require, a full > development > environment devoted to them. Gcc, bash, and perl are pretty much > standard > parts of Linux these days. Ruby, Python, Java, and a host of > others are, in > my opinion, solutions that have yet to justify themselves by > solving a real > problem. > > They're great for developers, programmers, designers, but not > appropriate for > end-user land. The problem with visiting end-user land, is pretty much every end-user has different "real problem[s]". > > _______________________________________________ > Kclug mailing list > Kclug(a)kclug.org > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug >

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RE: PHP versus ASP.NET WAS: Test Hosting Recommendation
by Brian Kelsay 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

Now that custom stamp thing sounds like a great idea. It could be used at a site like Cafe Press too. I don't recall how they do it. But I have gotten really sick of the flash ads on sites like yahoo. I have to put more stuff in my hosts file or use Ad Blocker on Firefox. And then you run the risk of missing images or information that is hosted on the same server as the ads. Example is images.yahoo.com and anything hosted on akamai.com Brian Kelsay >>> "Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student)" <> 02/17/05 12:02PM >>> I would agree that most of the time flash is a needless expense. There are times that using flash would be called for. Flash has the ability to call web services on the backend, and that gives you the ability to create a very rich user experience for web applications. And if you are working on specific applications like what I'm talking about, many times you have some control over the type of machines that will be accessing the application and the software it has installed. So I would call that the one plus. I originally got the idea from a local guy, Tom Collins, from first street software. They were using a flash application to create custom stamps from images the end user uploaded - very cool.

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Re: PHP versus ASP.NET WAS: Test Hosting Recommendation
by Brian Kelsay 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

Support system also is supposed to mean sandbox. If the java applet crashes then the VM should recover itself and not take the hosting OS down with it. I can't guarantee that is the reality of it or the way it works, but my understanding of it. I would say Flash and Shockwave do almost the same thing, but can be equally pointless on a website. You should always ask yourself if you could do the same thing with HTML or a script and have a similar user experience. Or are you creating a wiz-bang interface that is getting in the way of reading the information that you want. Brian Kelsay >>> Jonathan Hutchins <> 02/17/05 11:08AM Personally, I object to having to install an operating system on my operating system in order to see the animated dingbats on somebody's web site. Give me something like HTML that "runs" natively on multiple platforms, that doesn't require me to download and install a support system.

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RE: PHP versus ASP.NET WAS: Test Hosting Recommendation
by Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

>I would say Flash and Shockwave do almost the same thing, but can be >equally pointless on a website. You should always ask yourself if you >could do the same thing with HTML or a script and have a similar user >experience. Or are you creating a wiz-bang interface that is getting in >the way of reading the information that you want. I would agree that most of the time flash is a needless expense. There are times that using flash would be called for. Flash has the ability to call web services on the backend, and that gives you the ability to create a very rich user experience for web applications. And if you are working on specific applications like what I'm talking about, many times you have some control over the type of machines that will be accessing the application and the software it has installed. So I would call that the one plus. I originally got the idea from a local guy, Tom Collins, from first street software. They were using a flash application to create custom stamps from images the end user uploaded - very cool.

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RE: PHP versus ASP.NET WAS: Test Hosting Recommendation
by Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

>I agree. I've had Java installed on computers since somewhere around 1996 >and until this day I've only see four GUI apps written in Java that were >usable: JEdit, ldapbrowser, Azureus, and IHMCCmap. Wasn't there a bit of OpenOffice/StarOffice that Depends on Java? I know it's one of the dependencies. But I agree. UMKC depends on Java for its STAR service, and it's always been a pain.

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RE: Test Hosting Recommendation
by Brian Densmore 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

> From: Jason Clinton > > ...Actually I believe it comes from LISP or possibly Smalltalk > or its predecessor Simula. Well, I wasn't trying to give the full history of function overloading. I was merely pointing to the source of function overloading for .Net. LISP by it's very design is overloadable. However you might be able to argue that FORTRAN also was able to overload functions, and since FORTRAN predates LISP... (however don't let McCarthy hear you say that) > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerald Combs > > Next you'll be telling us that there were personal computers > before the > IBM PC. Sheesh. Yes! I believe the proper term for it is "brain". Of course it's not a "binary personal computer", and it doesn't always come with sound or a monitor, but the great thing about it, is you never need to reboot, add memory or replace the harddrive. Once the memory or storage system goes or it shuts down it's game over. Of course scientists are working on replacing or enhancing memory and storage abilities and on extending the effective lifetime of brains. Then of course there's the Babcock personal computer, there for anyone who wants to build one. "No one will ever need more than 1 computer." - Thomas Watson

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RE: PHP versus ASP.NET WAS: Test Hosting Recommendation
by Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

>Be careful there, it is my understanding that C# is compiled to bytecode. >This is like calling java a compiled language. When I think compiled, I >think c, Pascal, COBOL, assembly, etc. Compiling to bytecode certainly has >advantages, but it is still interpreted. The nice thing about compiling to >byte code is being able to transfer "compiled" code across platforms. You >still need to have interpreters compiled to the machine code for every >platform. Ok, you got me there :) Although another nice thing about compiling is that instead of having 50+ files to distribute, you have one "compiled" library (or assembly, whichever you prefer).

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RE: Server Crashing Question
by Brian Kelsay 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

Josh, when troubleshooting a desktop or server the process usually starts the same. For future reference: What were you doing when it broke/crashed/stalled? What was the last change made to the machine? What else is on the machine and was integration testing done (do all the apps play nice together)? Do you have a backup you can roll back to and test? Can you recreate the problem? Can WE recreate the problem? Is the software or hardware being used as intended? Is it supposed to do what it is doing, other than crashing of course? What are the min. hardware requirements of the software and are those realistic? There are other things that get asked from there as you work the problem, but those are the basics. Logs help, a server should have a changelog to refer to, and those changes should go thru a change control meeting and approval process if your organization is more than a handful of IT people. Discuss how a change may affect users, plan for down time for big changes and migrations, etc. So if you have a notebook for each server then great!! If not, why not? So the server or the app was maybe not tested under load. There are programs and scripts that will simulate loads so you can test this on a box in your off-line test lab. You have a lab don't you? Brian Kelsay >>> "Charles, Joshua Micah " <> 02/17/05 09:13AM >>> Thanks to everyone that replied, both on and off the list. I think we've decided that the server just had too many users.

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RE: Server Crashing Question
by Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) 17 Feb '05

17 Feb '05

Thanks to everyone that replied, both on and off the list. I think we've decided that the server just had too many users. Thanks! Josh -----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces(a)kclug.org [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Turner Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:19 PM To: kclug(a)kclug.org Subject: Re: Server Crashing Question On Wed, Feb 16, 2005 at 08:09:36AM -0600, Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) wrote: > What I'm looking for is the opinion of someone with more experience > administering servers. Is traffic the most likely cause of the > problem? How about logs? I had an issue with PHP and Drupal's modules page. I could never get it to open. I finally checked the logs and had to increase memory usage to 64M, rather than the 8M default. Anywho, logs would be a good place to start. Is your PHP app a db-intensive or CPU/RAM-intensive project? Jeremy _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug(a)kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug

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