KCLUG October 2004

53 participants
175 discussions

RE: BitTorrent + INDUCE Act + Linspire 5.0
by Brian Densmore 12 Oct '04

12 Oct '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Leo Mauler > > > --- Brian Densmore wrote: > > > Is it possible to invoke Godwin's law by naming > > Eva Braun, it being a circular reference to > > Hitler? Or does that invoke the corollary of > > Godwin's law? Or is it in itself a circular > > reference to Godwin's law? > > I think its a good time to point out that "Godwin's > Law" is nothing more and nothing less a statement of > the probability of Hitler being mentioned in a given > discussion, being that the probability of Hitler being > mentioned in a UseNet discussion ("Godwin's Law" was > originally developed on UseNet NEWS) is directly > proportional to the length of the UseNet discussion. What Godwin's Law states and what it has come to mean are not necessarily the same thing. There are lots of "standards" but the real question should be what is the defacto "standard". > > It does not make any mention of who "wins" the > discussion, a common misconception about "Godwin's > Law". I don't recall saying anything about winning or losing, I was merely mentioning the fact that perhaps this discussion had gone on long enough that some of us might have gotten the feeling we were now members of the BitTorrent users group. ;') For further reading and in support of my position, I contribute the following quote and link: quote, "The Law is generally used on Usenet as an indicator of whether a thread has gone on too long, who's playing fair and who's just slinging mud, and who finally gets to "win" the discussion. It has, over time, become the closest thing to an impartial moderator that Usenet can get. So, what this means in practical terms: o If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it wasn't necessary or germane without it necessarily being an insult, it's probably about time for the thread to end. o If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it was vaguely related but is basically being used as an insult, the speaker can be considered to be flaming and not debating. o If someone brings up Nazis in any conversation that has been going on too long for one of the parties, it can be used as a fair excuse to end the thread and declare victory for the other side." and link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law Not necessarily related. Now to go see how my Nazi memorabilia is selling over on EBay.

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Shared teleconferencing in Linux
by Leo Mauler 12 Oct '04

12 Oct '04

What I'm wanting here is the ability to type chat, draw on a shared whiteboard, share photos, and possibly audio teleconferencing. I'm not looking for video teleconferencing but it would be interesting as an option. I was adjusting Components for a friend with Windows98 and saw "NetMeeting". It sounded interesting but I'd like to be able to do that with Linux instead, and presumably things have improved a bit since 1998. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Command Question
by Paul Taylor 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

Anyone know a linux command (or Solaris) that copies console / SSH sessions input/output and stores it in a text file for later retrieval? Basically, I want to do some linux studies at home then e-mail the text file to my instructor that shows all my input and output. A few years back I took an advanced Solaris class and our instructor has everyone SSH into his machine, execute a command (can't remember), then do our test / quizes, then we would exit the command (can't remember), then close SSH. The instructor would go into a text file and see all the students input / output from the SSH session. I suppose I could just copy / paste my console window but that wouldn't be geek enough. Thanks, Paul

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OT: video card and hard drive for sale
by JARiley＠dstsystems.com 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

A friend is looking to get rid of some parts that came with a system he just bought. brand-new Radeon 9200 SE 128mb AGP video card and a 7200 80GB IBM deskstar IDE drive... $120 for the pair His name is Dennis. He can be reached at digitalplaid(a)yahoo.com thnx

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RE: BitTorrent + INDUCE Act + Linspire 5.0
by Brian Densmore 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

Well if you want to be 100% technically correct, one doesn't ride a subway. One rides a subway "car". Or if one is clever, one can ride two subway cars, but it's not very comfortable. Good points though on p2p and c2s. p2p <> c2s Although it's really a bit arbitrary if you ask me, and probably not entirely correct. In order to make something p2p there has to be some application that "advertises" the availability of the peer data. That application "could" be considered a server. No way can I see cp, dd and tar considered as p2p or client-to-server, although I can see the point made. > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Wiles > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:29:58 -0500 > Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins(a)tarcanfel.org> wrote: > > > On Monday 11 October 2004 11:17 am, Frank Wiles wrote: > > > > > > > > That would include P2P software like ftp, scp, cp, dd, tar, > > > > > > copy, etc.? > > > ... > > What I'm saying is that while Bittorrent is by definition P2P, the > others you listed are not. Yes, they are used to transfer files. > Yes, they can be used to transfer files without DRM. > However, FTP and > SCP are server to client not peer to peer. > > My definition of local is "not leaving the same server". I forgot > about the possibility of using cp, tar, etc on a mapped drive, NFS, > etc. But this still does not make them P2P, it makes them a method > of transferring files over a networked drive. > > All I ask is that you use the terminology correctly. Much like we > don't call trucks, buses, and subways "cars" despite the > fact they are > all methods of transportation. >

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RE: BitTorrent + INDUCE Act + Linspire 5.0
by Brian Densmore 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins > > On Monday 11 October 2004 11:05 am, Brian Densmore wrote: > > > ... each tape would still only be accessible by one user at a time. > > Nonsense. Anything streamed off the tape can be buffered and > re-distributed > to multiple destinations. You have to take my statement in context. I was not saying that one cannot copy a tape that is being played in a tape player. That was not the supposition of the previous post. The previous post was implying a station wagon load of tapes was P2P. To which I stated that without a teleportation device it could not be downloaded from any place in the world and even if you could teleport the tape only one person at a time could teleport it. Unless of course the teleportation device also was capable of replication. In which case my argument falls apart. Simply put, a carload of tapes is not equivalent to a HD full of music. And although I agree that there are non-infringing uses of P2P and thus should not be outlawed, there is a need for a solution to try to prevent illegal copying on the scale that is possible with P2P. Simply put, copyright owners are entitled to have some control over their works. Whether that be the authors or the mega-corporations that have extorted those rights from the original authors. There is a big difference between making a few copies of a song for friends over one's lifetime and making thousands or millions of copies available to strangers. As far as I'm concerned, anyone posting copyrighted works, which do not belong to them or without the explicit permission to do so, to p2p networks is guilty of piracy. Justify it anyway you want. $0.02, Brian

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RE: How to Trackdown a Hardware Failure with Knoppix?
by Brian Densmore 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Coffee Grounds > > > Hello, > > I believe I've had some form of hardware failure and I wonder if there > is a way to track it down with Knoppix. > > My Knoppix HD install simply will not boot (hangs when X attempts to > launch) and booting off the CD is unsuccessful as well. > > I can boot Knoppix off the CD in failsafe mode. The question > is, what do > I do after that to figure out what's causing the failure? What do you get when you boot in failsafe mode? Is it text only? Or do you get a gui? Here's two things to try I haven't seen mentioned. >From a command line type lspci | less if you don't have less use more instead. Look through the output and see if your video card is being detected. If you don't see it then replace your video card. I suspect that isn't the issue since you can boot into failsafe mode. Although that is an assumption and quite possibly not a valid one. It could be that your video card is partly functional. Possibly shorting out somewhere (like where there is dust touching two contacts). Second thing to try is, if you are launching knoppix to a text only mode, from a command line type in startx. This should launch X or give some indication why it is failing. More things to look at. Since you have Linux installed on the machine, and you can launch knoppix in safe mode, you should be able to look at the log files for your installed system. You'll have to mount the partitions if knoppix didn't do it by default. Look in /var/log for the various logs such a kernel and dmesg. Careful with the dmesg logfile as typing in "dmesg" will get you the current boot process's dmesg rather than cat /partitiontoinstalledlinux/var/log/dmesg |less which should print out the dmesg from the last time your system either booted successfully or last time it tried. there may be a wealth of useful data in the log files, or they may be useless in solving your problem.

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RE: BitTorrent + INDUCE Act + Linspire 5.0
by Brian Densmore 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

That would be P2P hardware. Additionally until IBM can figure out to teleport more than a few bosons at a time you won't have the instant global access to that station wagon. And then each tape would still only be accessible by one user at a time. Brian D Windows is a 32 bit extension to a 16-bit graphical shell for an 8-bit operating system originally for a 4-bit microprocessor by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins > > > "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes." > > How's that for "P2P" software?

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Re: How to Trackdown a Hardware Failure with Knoppix?
by Jonathan Hutchins 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

On Monday 11 October 2004 06:56 am, lowell(a)kc.rr.com wrote: > I have heard that moving them to a new <pci?> slot helps;won't do much good > with an agp video card, tho'... It can help in some cases, but physically there's no difference. If you've changed cards, sometimes it's necessary to clear the BIOS information for the old card, and sometimes this is easier if you move cards around, but there are better ways to handle that.

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RE: BitTorrent + INDUCE Act + Linspire 5.0
by Brian Densmore 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

Wellllllll..... I agree with you, partially. ftp and scp could conceiveably be construed as P2P. Especially anonymous ftp, or ftp that doesn't require a login. In any event ftp and scp could be considered to violate the induce act. Fortunately, it was defeated for this time around Congress. It should be interesting how this one gets brought back next term. On the plus side, it has been twice defeated, but I suspect our most esteemed Congressman Orin Hatch will have a new version to please his constituents ... err ... clients ... err ... ummm ... what do we call his financial backers who have no influence over his decision making and never would consider bribing him in the form of contributions, etc. to get laws passed that are in their agenda? Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Wiles > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:34:20 -0500 > Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > > On Friday 08 October 2004 02:17 pm, Jeremy Turner wrote: > > > > > This week's Michael's Minutes talked about how Linspire > 5.0 might be > > > illegal because it incorporates BitTorrent/P2P. The INDUCE Act is > > > trying to make all P2P software illegal, but it could have a lot > > > broader effect than just a bunch of copyrighted music. > > > > That would include P2P software like ftp, scp, cp, dd, tar, copy, > > etc.? > > FYI ftp, scp, cp, dd, tar, and copy aren't P2P programs. >

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KCLUG October 2004